Mark Ellis: I am impressed with the level of work of the Ukrainian advocates and legal professionals I meet

Mark Ellis is a well-known attorney, lawyer, and legal advisor to international organizations of international renown. One of his specialties is the activity of the war crimes tribunals. As the current Executive Director of the International Bar Association (IBA), he keeps abreast of the problems and peculiarities of the Ukrainian legal system and frequently visits our country during the war. As he admits, it is due to his current position, as he believes that his expertise can be helpful to us right now. Given the numerous comments of the famous American on the international tribunal, we decided to raise another but no less important topic: the Ukrainian judicial system and the protection of the legal profession during the war. This is close and understandable to Mr. Ellis and, at the same time, has a unique Ukrainian specificity. He frankly shared his assessments and warnings.

Our brief conversation occurred at the end of last week over a cup of coffee in the lobby of a central Kyiv hotel.

Mark, this is not your first time in our country. Could you tell us how justice has changed in Ukraine? How would you characterize Ukrainian justice during the war? It has changed, but is this experience applicable to other countries?

This is the 6th time I have visited Ukraine during the war. I felt a responsibility and a need to be here in this challenging time. As for judicial reform and the judicial system in particular, I know this process is still ongoing. I want to recognize the significant efforts of Ukraine, which, despite the war, continues to implement judicial reform, although it is a rather difficult task. I applaud Ukraine because, regardless of the difficult conditions, the Ukrainian government continues the judicial reform process, which tells us a lot about the ability to carry out such work. At the same time, I am impressed with the level of work of the Ukrainian advocates and legal professionals I meet. They are highly professional people.

Given that one of the goals of the judicial reform was to eradicate corruption, what are your observations now? Has it decreased during the war, or vice versa? How would you characterize the level of corruption in Ukraine?

I do not have any relevant evidence of the existence or absence of corruption in Ukraine. However, after my numerous communications with representatives of the Ukrainian establishment, I can only conclude that the Ukrainian state is focused on fighting corruption and fighting corruption is one of the country's top priorities. I cannot but note the increased attention to this issue. Ukraine is not a unique country in terms of the phenomenon of corruption. All countries in the world face it in one way or another. For me, it is important that the state has a focused attitude to corruption and strives to eradicate it. This is the attitude that governments should have towards this problem, and the fact that it is happening in Ukraine makes me extremely happy.

You know that we have a National Bar Association in Ukraine. This organization unites all Ukrainian Advocates. Have you met such a community or association of advocates in other European countries or the U.S.? How would you assess the work of the Ukrainian bar self-government?

Of course, the vast majority of developed countries have a separate independent legal profession, the main principle of which is independence. I have to pay tribute to the Ukrainian legal profession, because over the years of my acquaintance with Ukraine, I can say with confidence that the Ukrainian National Bar Association represents the Ukrainian legal community well in the international arena. The lawyers I meet here are of a very high standard.

You have probably heard about various attempts to question the activities of the Ukrainian Bar community in Ukraine as independent of the authorities. That is, we are talking about certain attempts to take control of such an organization. Have you seen such cases in the United States and do you know of any such cases in other European countries?

These issues are purely Ukrainian. I believe that the legal profession should not only look but also act independently and, above all, effectively, in accordance with its responsibilities. Lawyers play an extremely important role in society. I believe that there should be an ongoing process of improving the image and public perception of the legal profession as a whole.

Regarding protection tools in the profession. How effective are they, in your opinion?

I meet a lot of people who need legal services. From what I understand, the tools of defense law are available to lawyers - this is an extremely important issue. I believe that this needs to be improved. I was very impressed with the efforts made by Ukraine’s Legal Aid system to provide legal advice to those who really need it. I would like to once again recognize the advocates who spend not only their working time but also their personal time to provide relevant advice.

To what extent are Ukrainian lawyers protected in their profession in Ukraine during the war?

Ukrainians are a very strong and resilient people, and they are working to win. But, during any war, it is undeniable that citizens also become victims. And lawyers in this situation face the same risks as ordinary citizens. I believe that Ukrainian society understands how important the role of lawyers is. It is important that this awareness is strengthened and not diminished.

In your opinion, how can Ukrainians restore their trust in the courts? How can the work of Ukrainian courts be improved?

It is worth noting that the perception of the judicial system in the United Kingdom, where I live now, and in the United States is very different. The percentage of people in the United States who trust the Supreme Court has been rapidly declining. Therefore, the issue of public trust in the court is not a purely Ukrainian one; this problem can arise even in countries like the United States. What we need to insist on is the independence of the judiciary. We need to direct all resources to ensure that the judicial system is able to play the role it is supposed to play in society.

If you had to defend yourself in court here in Ukraine, would you file a lawsuit in our court or would you try to do it in an international court? And if you did end up in a Ukrainian court, who would be your advocate?

I have high regard for and trust in the Ukrainian judiciary. I have met and worked with numerous judges in Ukraine and have been impressed by their work. Therefore, I have every reason to trust the Ukrainian judicial system. As for the lawyer, I trust my own experience and will represent myself.